The Thread for Discussing Bespeaking Bespoke Shoes

[TheFoo]

I understand there are threads for showing off already-made bespoke shoes, but I couldn't think of one dedicated to discussing the trials and tribulations of ordering them. So, here you go.

Back in the summer, I met with Dominic Casey from Cleverley to order my first pair of bespoke shoes--a simple punch cap, no medallion, balmoral, in dark brown calfskin. Everything about the order was very straighforward, except that I asked whether the shoes could be made without a back seam or back strap. In other words, a wholecut. I was told this wasn't possible, so I said it was no problem; let's just proceed with the standard back strap.

At my first fitting in the fall, I was surprised to find that the shoes had been indeed made without a back seam or back strap! I thought: "Wow, that is quite a feat!" But then I noticed that there was no back seam only because they had decided to put the seam on the inner side of the shoe! Running straight through the broguing! I've never seen anything like it before. Quite ugly, in my opinion.

I tried to tell myself I was okay with it, but it was keeping me up at night. Seriously. It strikes me as a particularly inelegant solution to a problem that didn't really need to be solved.

What would you do? Ask them to remake with a normal back seam? Live with it? Has anyone seen this sort of 'hidden' seam before?

 

[aportnoy]

Ask them to remake it, sounds like a bizarre placement for the seam. I need to check my shoes to see if they did something likewise but it seems unlikely.

I have been a Cleverley customer for quite a while and they have always been wonderful about addressing any issues.

 

[JubeiSpiegel]

Do you have pics of the hidden seam? Also, what did the maker say regarding your worries?

 

[TheFoo]

No pictures.

The seam runs straight down from the opening of the shoe, perpendicular to the sole.

 

[dopey]

I don't know what your seam looks like, so this may or may not apply to you, but running the seam on the inside and towards the rear is a way to place the seam in a low stress area. It is especially desirable in country shoes and I ask for it specifically, usually in the form of hand sewn skin stitched seam. On my last pair of suede shoes, I was told they couldn't do a skin stitch so they did an overlock seam. It is not normal for business oxfords, but I am not sure that alone makes it awful. I am not sure it would bother me if it was just a plain seam. It is weird enough that it seems they should have asked you about it first, though.

 

[TheFoo]

Weird is the right word. Not happy about it so I will certainly ask them to remake.

Is a wholecut brogued balmoral not a possibility? Seems to me it should be.

 

[dopey]

It shouldn't be a problem in the abstract, but it may be a problem with the leather you chose. It also may not be something Cleverly does. G&G does it all the time.
I would not want it as it seems to favor styling over construction integrity. But I can't prove that the people who advise against it aren't just lazy so I am not saying you should follow my lead.

 

[JubeiSpiegel]

I guess if they start with the seamless wholecut (which is possible) and simply work the cosmetic stitching and punching in, should be possible. Not sure how you would feel about that approach though...

 

[TheFoo]

Aren't all of Lobb Paris's RTW Prestige shoes wholecuts? All of mine lack seams. I don't understand why there would be an integrity issue. In fact, I imagine the seam is the weakest part of the shoe.

 

[dopey]

The integrity issue related to the stress in the leather from stretching it over the last at that point. The seam allows the pattern to be made so that it requires less stretching.

And until G&G came along, Lobb was the most fashion forward of the Northampton makers, so it is no surprise that they love wholecuts. But it doesn't make any difference to what I said.

 

[JubeiSpiegel]

Not sure about regular wholecuts, but with seamless, it's something about the excessive stretching needed to warp the heel into place. Makes the leather thinner and less durable. Looks like a DW question though...

 

[dopey]

Btw, since you are asking for a regular captoe with a seamless rear, this should be no big deal. The cap piece means you don't have to stretch a sheet if leather and can cut a U.

 

[DocHolliday]

It's an interesting question. Is that really enough to warrant asking for a remake? I don't know I'd feel comfortable with that, though I might express my displeasure and see what they say.

How much action does the OneShoe see these days?

 

[TheFoo]

The OneShoe is virtually all I wear, with the exception of a pair of black Lobb Philip IIs. The Cleverleys are part of my long-term plan to replace my RTW shoe wardrorbe with a fully bespoke one.

 

[dieworkwear]



It's an interesting question. Is that really enough to warrant asking for a remake? I don't know I'd feel comfortable with that, though I might express my displeasure and see what they say.

It might help if Matt states up front that if this order goes well, he'll order 6 more of the same exact shoe.