You want to gain weight?

[overdog]

Yeah, I got that much. But in theory, suppose I don't alter my eating habits, shouldn't the mere fact that I am working out convert some of my fat into muscle and result in at least a moderate amount of weight increase? Say, at least 5-7 pounds in a 4 month period?

 

[whacked]

Fat is not thin air.

Try this: (calorie in > calorie out) <=> weight gain, be it muscle or fat

Simple physics.

 

[Nil]

You also can't &quot;convert&quot; fat into muscle. It doesn't work that way; Fat doesn't change into muscle.

 

[skunkworks]

Originally Posted by overdog

Yeah, I got that much. But in theory, suppose I don't alter my eating habits, shouldn't the mere fact that I am working out convert some of my fat into muscle and result in at least a moderate amount of weight increase? Say, at least 5-7 pounds in a 4 month period?

Sounds like your lifting program might be shite. Does it consist of a lot of isolated movements?

 

[overdog]

Originally Posted by skunkworks

Sounds like your lifting program might be shite. Does it consist of a lot of isolated movements?

Maybe...I only recently started doing squats and deadlifts. Before that, most of my exercises were with machines.

 

[Jared]

I've dabbled with weight lifting for the last few years. I've got my protein intake up and ate high-protein snacks but I've never worried about the other aspects of my diet. I did a bit of cutting this spring/summer and I'd like to try bulking this fall/winter. I eat six meals/day.

On lifting days:
breakfast
pre-workout shake
post-workout shake
lunch
dinner
supper

On rest days:
breakfast
brunch
lunch
tea
dinner
supper

Besides dividing my protein and calorie requirements between those meals, what specifically should I be trying to eat? I know cottage cheese is good for supper because casein is slow-digesting. I've read that the pre-workout shake should include complex carbs (eg: oatmeal), but how much? And the post-workout shake should include simple carbs but not fruit; should I try to find a dietary source or just give up and drink sugar? Any advice for the other meals?

 

[Grayland]

Originally Posted by why

Care to explain?

I know where you're going with this, and if you start quoting studies that test subjects and not monounsaturated fats I'll have to pick the studies apart.

How often do peer-reviewed scientific studies actually make meaningful contributions to the world of fitness/exercise? I know we're talking weight gain, but we're also talking about gaining muscular weight. Does anyone expect 2 groups of people to be kept out of the real world, fed specific diets, sleep the same number of hours, and workout with the exact same intensity?

 

[why]

Originally Posted by Grayland

How often do peer-reviewed scientific studies actually make meaningful contributions to the world of fitness/exercise? I know we're talking weight gain, but we're also talking about gaining muscular weight. Does anyone expect 2 groups of people to be kept out of the real world, fed specific diets, sleep the same number of hours, and workout with the exact same intensity?
Do they need to? The same could be said for any test in any field of study. The studies that show monounsaturated fats help to build muscle all have a reciprocal change in something else, be it calories, lowered carbohydrates, increased fat intake overall (including saturated and polyunsaturated fats), etc. Because of that, the idea that 'monounsaturated fats make you gain muscle and are healthy' is just effected by someone who can't read the study for what it's worth (or has to make a deadline for an editor) spreading misinformation. It's not like monounsaturated fats are magical. They just have one free hydrogen bond. That's pretty much the entire difference between them and other triglycerides. I'd like to know the physiochemical process that makes having one free hydrogen bond so much more superior to having multiples or none.

 

[Grayland]

Originally Posted by why

Do they need to?

The same could be said for any test in any field of study. The studies that show monounsaturated fats help to build muscle all have a reciprocal change in something else, be it calories, lowered carbohydrates, increased fat intake overall (including saturated and polyunsaturated fats), etc. Because of that, the idea that 'monounsaturated fats make you gain muscle and are healthy' is just effected by someone who can't read the study for what it's worth (or has to make a deadline for an editor) spreading misinformation.

It's not like monounsaturated fats are magical. They just have one free hydrogen bond. That's pretty much the entire difference between them and other triglycerides. I'd like to know the physiochemical process that makes having one free hydrogen bond so much more superior to having multiples or none.

No, I don't think they need to at all. It just seems you love to reference studies (not necessarily in this thread) that you consider rock solid, yet you threaten to "pick apart" any study referenced by anyone else. If I want to learn what works in fitness/exercise, then I go to the source: athletes and trainers, not scientists in lab coats. If science could pinpoint and prove the absolute best diet/exercise plan, we'd all be following it. Science is important, but so is real life application.

 

[why]

Originally Posted by Grayland

No, I don't think they need to at all. It just seems you love to reference studies (not necessarily in this thread) that you consider rock solid, yet you threaten to "pick apart" any study referenced by anyone else.

Because a lot of studies suck. Don't accuse me of cherry picking studies.

The studies that actually have an application and show something are commonly referenced because they're actually good studies. They're the studies that actually show why or how something works and are what turn heads and make people assess and reassess programs. They're the basis for modern training and diet theory. You're looking at the end result first and never look back to see how or why things work that way in the first place -- if you did, at the starting line you'd see a lot of the studies I've referenced in the past.

If I want to learn what works in fitness/exercise, then I go to the source: athletes and trainers, not scientists in lab coats. If science could pinpoint and prove the absolute best diet/exercise plan, we'd all be following it. Science is important, but so is real life application.

What do you think elite athletes and trainers do? That's an honest question, because I have a feeling you're misguided.

 

[Grayland]

I'm not accusing you of cherry picking studies.

I think elite athletes/trainers do what they find works. Some look at journals; some do not. My sister-in-law and her husband are the women's/men track and field coaches at a college in upstate NY. Since I have an interest in the fitness/exercise field, I speak to them about those topics often. They've never quoted a refereed journal. I won't doubt many athletes succeed in spite of their training due to superior ability/genetics. Marvin Harrison supposedly lives on junk food but is going into the Football Hall of Fame. Other receivers eat right/train right, yet never are drafted.

Some fighters do only LSD cardio, others do more intense interval training. Some college football programs do powerlifting, others do O-lifting.


I do really appreciate your contributions here (and they've gotten much more respectable), but it doesn't have to be proved in a double blind study for me to believe something. I don't need proof, evidence is pretty good too.

 

[why]

Originally Posted by Grayland

I do really appreciate your contributions here (and they've gotten much more respectable), but it doesn't have to be proved in a double blind study for me to believe something. I don't need proof, evidence is pretty good too.

This sounds a lot to me like you're having trouble rationalizing what you're doing in your own program. Anyway, when someone says 'monounsaturated fats increase muscle' that's a pretty direct claim -- it's not a matter of what programs work for what people or to try and say that I'm wrong because John Doe eats a lot of avocados and he's ripped to the bone.

When you're dealing with a direct claim like that there needs to be some explanation for why it works. The basis for the claim isn't the fact that John Doe eats a lot of avocados and he's ripped -- that's simply empirical and totally anecdotal evidence. If anything, that would make someone claim avocados make people ripped and not monounsaturated fats. When you're dealing with a claim like 'monounsaturated fats increase muscle tissue' you need to realize that the claim was based on an article that was based on a study. When the study is found and reassessed you might just realize that it was bullshit to begin with and maybe John Doe's avocados have a lot more going on and the reason he's ripped isn't related to monounsaturated fats at all.

 

[Grayland]

Why,
I've said nothing about monounsaturated fats and don't really care. I just don't get real carried away with published studies and fitness. In addition, I have no problem at all rationalizing "my program". I've always been fit. I was an athlete in my youth, an Airborne Ranger from 1982-1985, and I've remained fit since. I'm in remarkable shape for a 44 year old. I deadlift 2X my bodyweight and can run a 5K in about 21 minutes - all on about 15- 20 minutes a day 5 X per week of my unproven program. I filled in for a triathlete at a 15K a few weeks ago. I hadn't run that far since the mid-80's (running makes me skinny) yet I lowered "his" time significantly (he'll start about 900 places ahead next year). To someone in their mid-twenties, these "results" won't seem like much, but I've yet to meet a guy my age who's able to actually use his body like I do. I can ski or surf on a whim and I'm not sore the next day. Many guys my age get hurt golfing!

I tried split routines and I tried compound exercises. Compound exercises won. Didn't need a study.
I did traditional cardio for years and then I started sprinting and noticed the fat melting away. Sprinting won. Didn't need a study.
When I get sore from working out, I take Ibuprofen and the soreness subsides. Didn't need a study.

I'm not speaking for others, but I've been able to figure out what works for me and I didn't need scientific proof.

I do follow your posts here and find them very interesting and I mean that sincerely.

 

[why]

So what are you arguing then?

I show a study about monounsaturated fats or NSAIDs and soreness you're saying 'Yeah, but I started sprinting and now I'm thinner!'

I don't get it.

 

[Grayland]

I'm not arguing anything. It seems like you're ready to jump all over anyone who makes a statement. "That can't be proved", "That's stupid", "Show me a study and I'll pick it apart", "You might as well eat Rice Chex", etc, etc., but you rarely make any statements yourself. I guess my beef is more on the fitness end and is the result of many of your past comments and not this thread in particular. You've gotten much better and you don't make as many 2 word answers designed to piss people off, but you come across as a first year grad student who wants to impress everyone with your newfound knowledge.

If you are in possession of the ultimate diet/fitness routine, then please give it to us. I am more than willing to try it out.