• Hi, I am the owner and main administrator of Styleforum. If you find the forum useful and fun, please help support it by buying through the posted links on the forum. Our main, very popular sales thread, where the latest and best sales are listed, are posted HERE

    Purchases made through some of our links earns a commission for the forum and allows us to do the work of maintaining and improving it. Finally, thanks for being a part of this community. We realize that there are many choices today on the internet, and we have all of you to thank for making Styleforum the foremost destination for discussions of menswear.
  • This site contains affiliate links for which Styleforum may be compensated.
  • STYLE. COMMUNITY. GREAT CLOTHING.

    Bored of counting likes on social networks? At Styleforum, you’ll find rousing discussions that go beyond strings of emojis.

    Click Here to join Styleforum's thousands of style enthusiasts today!

    Styleforum is supported in part by commission earning affiliate links sitewide. Please support us by using them. You may learn more here.

Italy-awesome but with issues

kennethpollock

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2006
Messages
296
Reaction score
0
My satorical strategy completely misfired. I decided to do something different for this, my 30th European trip. I would eschew my usual grey and navy clothes with black shoes. I would fit in by taking all olive and tan with brown shoes, as I had seen those colors much in evidence on my last visit to Italy, some 17years ago.
I have never been so wrong. I stuck out like a sore thumb. Maybe Milan and/or Naples are different, but everyone wearing a suit in Rome, Venice and Florence seemed to be wearing navy blue with a solid blue shirt. BORING!
My choice of shoes was not much better. Our hotel in Venice, the lovely Foscari Palace, had a cocktail party for the guests. One youngish couple, from Munich, glanced at my EG English tan leather/tan canvas specs, nudged each other and snickered. Those shoes proved to be my most comfortable. I had selected 4 pairs to take; each had been previously worn at least a dozen times by me and seemed comfortable enough, but had never been through the rigors of being worn all day, walking 10+ miles. The other pair that came through well were some tan Alden kiltie slipons. However, I was made miserable by my Carmina oxfords and my Grenson sidelaces. I found out the Carminas have a rather stiff sole that does not flex well (is it cheap leather?). As a result, my feet rubbed inside the shoe. The Grensons even seemed a bit narrow before I left, but I guess feet swell after considerable walking, so I was really hobbling by the end of the day.
I was surprised by a shop named "Black Watch" in Venice. It had a whole window of Brooks shirts (the store tags on each said "Brooks Brother" and gave the price-95 Euros for a no-iron button down [roughly three times the sale price here]). It also had a window of Polo blue label suits (1,995 Euros) as well as Kiton (3,450). It was disconcerting to see the respect paid to Polo everywhere. It was in all of the finest shops, at very high prices.
It made me wonder whether or not the Italians really knew quality.
The trip was fine, except for the crowds of tourists; my last 4 trips had been winter ones and I had forgotten about the summer lines. Shopping was absymal due to the weak dollar, the declining number of small unique stores and the proliferation of the same old international shops that one finds on Bond Street, r. St. Honore and 5th Avenue (Chanel, Hermes, Tiffany's, Versace, Brioni, etc.).
Via Condotti even has a Church's English Shoe store and a Burberry's. I wound up with four cheap no-brand ties.
The food was good, especially the middle and upper middle class places, but we were disappointed with grander places in Rome like the starred Mirabelle, at $433 for 2 people, and the restaurant at the Majestic Hotel. It is better to avoid grand French type places in Italy, although da Fiore in Venice (the only starred place in that city) was marvelous. Prices were through the roof; 28 Euros for an appetizer of [rather ordinary] asparagus at Centrale in Venice; 31 Euros (including the music charge) for a hot chocolate and a Capuccino at the famed Florian at Piazza San Marco.
 

TheFoo

THE FOO
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
26,713
Reaction score
9,858
Hmm, sorry to hear about your disappointments.

With regard to the proliferation of Brooks Brothers and Polo: as far as I know, there's a long-standing Italian fascination with the American classics (if you go to Naples, you'll see button-down oxfords all over the place), so it's not surprising. Regardless, Venice is a particularly touristy place so what they sell there isn't very representative of the overall Italian market.

Also, though Italians make and wear a lot of great clothes, stylish people don't necessarily worry so much about the details of construction that are discussed on internet forums. After all, part of 'Italian' style is effortlessness and a care-free attitude. How care-free can you be when you're counting stitches-per-inch?

Did you visit Naples or Milan? Maybe you would have found more of what you wanted to see.
 

stilmacher

Distinguished Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
1,030
Reaction score
5
I have to disagree. Venice is actually a very stylish place. Of course you are unlikely to notice that if you hang around St Marco all day. It is like saying there are no well turned out people in New York if you have spent your time taking pictures of Times Square.
The fascination the Italians have for everything English is however quite real. It is not by accident one of the most succesful Italian brands carries an English name: Tod's.
 

dkzzzz

Distinguished Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2006
Messages
5,294
Reaction score
21
And they LOooooove Church's shoes there. Which is surprising to me. I could easily imagine Germans being fascinated by CHurch's aesthetics ,but Italians?
 

stilmacher

Distinguished Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
1,030
Reaction score
5
Originally Posted by dkzzzz
And they LOooooove Church's shoes there. Which is surprising to me. I could easily imagine Germans being fascinated by CHurch's aesthetics ,but Italians?

The Germans are far too busy loooooooooving Alden...
 

Leslierc

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2006
Messages
315
Reaction score
0
I purchased a pair of Church's shoes for my wife when I was in Rome in May - yellow and white spectator wingtips.
 

Teacher

Stylish Dinosaur
Joined
Apr 2, 2005
Messages
12,135
Reaction score
407
Originally Posted by kennethpollock
31 Euros (including the music charge) for a hot chocolate and a Capuccino at the famed Florian at Piazza San Marco.

HOLY GOD!
 

Zegnamtl

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2006
Messages
649
Reaction score
10
Sorry to hear about the glitches suffered on your trip. I hope it was a great success otherwise?
As it turns out, it was wise to stay away from Naples on this trip!

My choice of shoes was not much better.....glanced at my EG English tan leather/tan canvas specs, nudged each other and snickered. Those shoes proved to be my most comfortable.......the rigors of being worn all day, walking 10+ miles..........

I had a feeling the specs would not go over,
but if they served your feet that well, to he$$ with them. My go to shoe for heavy walking is the AE Stockbridge in chili. I think I could walk across America in the shoes and never be anything but comfortable, despite being somewhat rough looking.

~~~~~~~~

I was surprised by a shop named "Black Watch" in Venice. It had a whole window of Brooks shirts......Polo blue label suits.......... It was disconcerting to see the respect paid to Polo everywhere. It was in all of the finest shops, at very high prices.It made me wonder whether or not the Italians really knew quality..........

I am not sure it is a question of if they know quailty or not, but more that they suffer a simialr syndrome as most of Asia. As quick as they are to crap on America at times, everyone wants to be just like America, the Malboro man! The Polo icon.

~~~~~~~~~

......The food was good, especially the middle and upper middle class places, but we were disappointed with grander places......

.......31 Euros (including the music charge) for a hot chocolate and a Capuccino at the famed Florian at Piazza San Marco.......

If the experience of being there (Florian) was one of kind, the music enchanting and the people watching world class, it would be worth the visit once. Like the main squares in most of Italy now, over priced and over rated more often than not with a ten fold better dining experience normally just a few short blocks away from the tourist path of hell.

It has changed a great deal since your previous visit, the whole Euro deal sent Italy into an upheaval of sorts.
 

itsstillmatt

The Liberator
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
13,969
Reaction score
2,086
Despite the spazzatura, Naples was as nice as ever this Spring.

We did not eat particularly well in Rome, but was our own fault. It is a difficult city for me food wise. Naples is much, much better.

Black Watch is a terrific store. There are other good ones in Venice, but, as you say, it is an expensive town with slightly dodgy food.
 

johnnyblazini

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2006
Messages
254
Reaction score
1
Originally Posted by stilmacher
I have to disagree. Venice is actually a very stylish place.

I read that locals represent about 5% of the population at any one point, so if you are right it's more of a comment on the tourist that choose Venice as a destination that local customs...
 

epa

Distinguished Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2006
Messages
1,410
Reaction score
7
Originally Posted by kennethpollock
The food was good, especially the middle and upper middle class places, but we were disappointed with grander places in Rome like the starred Mirabelle, at $433 for 2 people, and the restaurant at the Majestic Hotel. It is better to avoid grand French type places in Italy, although da Fiore in Venice (the only starred place in that city) was marvelous. Prices were through the roof; 28 Euros for an appetizer of [rather ordinary] asparagus at Centrale in Venice; 31 Euros (including the music charge) for a hot chocolate and a Capuccino at the famed Florian at Piazza San Marco.

I had a lot of cheap and very nice food in Venice this spring. The grilled eel was the best, maybe, and I had it several times. I found food surprisingly cheap, but then I did not go to any "famous" places. Well, I actually entered Harry's Bar, but when I saw what they charged for a tiny Bellini, which is basically sparkling wine and fruit juice, I walked out. I guess that Hemingway would have done the same if he revisited it today; it is probably not his kind of crowd that hangs out there nowadays, anyway.
 

lasbar

Stylish Dinosaur
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Messages
22,718
Reaction score
1,322
The Italian tend to love Burberry scarfs and Barbour wax jackets a lot which is mixed with suede chukkas most of the time....
I do normally disagree with stereotypes on the ground they 're most of the time a lot of tripes but i do have to recognise that Italians tend to ,to everybody's surprise,to stick to certain dress codes rules....
If you go to Florence ,you will bemused/amused at the copycats in the street....
They do love brown shoes but i have seen more tan shoes in London than in Venice......
By theway,I'm flying out to Venice tomorrow morning with my wife ...
I will avoid the expensive places and otan shoes on the basis they'requite awful...
 

summej2

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2006
Messages
589
Reaction score
3
Just be glad you didn't bring any orange pants. My friends there informed me that they are now quite out of fashion. Red seems to be the new thing.
 

Featured Sponsor

How important is full vs half canvas to you for heavier sport jackets?

  • Definitely full canvas only

    Votes: 101 36.3%
  • Half canvas is fine

    Votes: 100 36.0%
  • Really don't care

    Votes: 36 12.9%
  • Depends on fabric

    Votes: 46 16.5%
  • Depends on price

    Votes: 41 14.7%

Forum statistics

Threads
508,053
Messages
10,599,176
Members
224,525
Latest member
NancySorrells
Top