Cap in a fine restaurant

[nightowl6261a]

PHV,June 27 2005,21:03 It's nice to know that you like food, but really, get over yourself.

I must say, after sitting here for many tolerable minutes reading this elaborate display of mannerisms do's and don't, which by the way, I personally could care less about whether or not the man next to me has good/bad etiquette.....the above statement must be one of the rudest most outrageously stupid comments from a member placing a direct attack on a gentleman I happen to know over his right to a dining experience.
I certainly do not defend any one persons particular quirkiness, however, in an upstanding fine restaurant or any other environment for that manner which a person should conduct himself/herself with a touch of class, should we not agree that part of the experience lies within the overall atmosphere as well.
I will say, if dining with Jerry, and we were to be seated next to a man wearing a hat, and this bothered him, if he were to ask to be seated in another place, I would not personally hesitate to agree. The whole reason for going into a fine restaurant is not completely the food, but the overall ambience.
It is not that the chefs tremble at his footsteps, but more, they appreciate the patronage and the referrals from a man that has extremely good taste in fine wine, food, and hopefully company, which I have no doubt.
IMO, it is this statement from the NEW age adults that is putting a ruin to this fine place we call home.

with your elite food doyens and captains of industry forming your ominous possy of old world etiquette and values.

If the younger people of today's world would learn from the higher etiquette standards of the past, we could gain some respectability around the world. But Americans are viewed as boorish disgusting people in many places because of the lack of class in many an upbringing.
As I said, I personally would not take offense to a man wearing a hat in any restaurant, I would laugh aloud, not because I am rude, but more because of the fact that his parents did not have the decency to raise him to know better.
Now that said, I have dined with Jerry, on more than one occasion, and his taste in restaurants and fine wine is only out-weighed by his class and thoughtfulness, so if this man does not want to be seated next to someone who has relatively low class and selesteem, and prefers to enjoy the atmosphere and experience of an upperclass quality restaurant, then I say, grab hold of your ominous old world etiquette and values and Michelle and I will be more than happy to join you again.

 

[Cliff]

Well said Nightowl .

 

[ATM]

I'm not going to pick a side in this argument but it reminds me of this scene from the Blues Brothers:

Customer: Waiter. Sir. Please, waiter.
Mr Fabulous: Yes sir. How are your salads?
Customer:The salads are fine. It's just that, we'd.. we'd like to move to another table, away from those two gentlemen.
Mr Fabulous: Why? Have they been disturbing you?
Customer: No. It's just that.. well frankly, they're offensive. Smelling. I mean they smell bad.
Mr Fabulous: Excuse me sir, I'll see if I can locate another table for you.
Customer: Thank you.

Hope that helps lighten the mood.

 

[PHV]

Quote:

PHV,June 27 2005,21:03 It's nice to know that you like food, but really, get over yourself.
I must say, after sitting here for many tolerable minutes reading this elaborate display of mannerisms do's and don't, which by the way, I personally could care less about whether or not the man next to me has good/bad etiquette.....the above statement must be one of the rudest most outrageously stupid comments from a member placing a direct attack on a gentleman I happen to know over his right to a dining experience. I certainly do not defend any one persons particular quirkiness, however, in an upstanding fine restaurant or any other environment for that manner which a person should conduct himself/herself with a touch of class, should we not agree that part of the experience lies within the overall atmosphere as well. I will say, if dining with Jerry, and we were to be seated next to a man wearing a hat, and this bothered him, if he were to ask to be seated in another place, I would not personally hesitate to agree. The whole reason for going into a fine restaurant is not completely the food, but the overall ambience. It is not that the chefs tremble at his footsteps, but more, they appreciate the patronage and the referrals from a man that has extremely good taste in fine wine, food, and hopefully company, which I have no doubt. IMO, it is this statement from the NEW age adults that is putting a ruin to this fine place we call home.

with your elite food doyens and captains of industry forming your ominous possy of old world etiquette and values.

If the younger people of today's world would learn from the higher etiquette standards of the past, we could gain some respectability around the world. But Americans are viewed as boorish disgusting people in many places because of the lack of class in many an upbringing. As I said, I personally would not take offense to a man wearing a hat in any restaurant, I would laugh aloud, not because I am rude, but more because of the fact that his parents did not have the decency to raise him to know better. Now that said, I have dined with Jerry, on more than one occasion, and his taste in restaurants and fine wine is only out-weighed by his class and thoughtfulness, so if this man does not want to be seated next to someone who has relatively low class and selesteem, and prefers to enjoy the atmosphere and experience of an upperclass quality restaurant, then I say, grab hold of your ominous old world etiquette and values and Michelle and I will be more than happy to join you again.
There is nothing new age about me, save for my actual age. Again, I very much hold onto the values that were taught to me by my parents, who came from a background that discretely judged a person's character based on their social graces and table etiquette. At the same time, I am also aware of the changing times in which such values are becoming antiquated. Instead of kicking and screaming about the whole thing, I am slowly realizing that you cannot hold others to that standard as was once expected in fine restaurants. The best you can do is to conduct yourself in the manner which you were taught, do it quietly and gracefully, and if there is a horde of barbarians, continue on in your quiet way. If there is a man in a ball cap next to me, I'd definately make a joke to whoever is at my table. However, I usually have enough confidence in the company I keep to engage my mind to a degree that a man in a ball cap will not disturb me enough to ruin a beautiful atmosphere. If the table is excessively loud, then I definately would do something, as I did once at a new trendy place in Montreal. I was out with my mother and a friend of mine. They were cursing and being total jackasses. If it had been just my friend and I, I'd probably forget it. But since my mother was being subjected to half the sailor's dictionary, and even against her urging that she was not bothered, I got up and asked that they move them, or remove them. The manager obviously got the people out of there. I don't disagree with the values being spoken of here. I simply think that we have to get over some of the mannerisms that perhaps are not relavant anymore. Don't ever spout that new age BS on me. I am a violinist, and am studying to do that on a high level. The music I play is sometimes 400 years old, and the level of decorum and protocol adhered to in this art is staggering. What we are realizing, is that audiences are changing, and thus so must we. Of course I'd like to play an all Ysaye program, but most people will be bored out of their minds by the time I start the Obsession. I understand, but I have to respectfully disagree.

 

[globetrotter]

I have to say here that I agree with P - I might find it mildly offensive to see somebody wearing a cap in a resteraunt, but as long as he isn't loud or smelly, I am not going to let it bother my meal. sure, I might find pleasure in having some very nicely dressed people in my line of sight while eating, and perhaps it will give me displeasure to have unatractive or poorly dressed people in my line of site, but I won't let the boorishness of somebody away from my table ruin meals for me on a regular basis.

life is to short to let these things get your pants in a twist. I mean no distrespect to Jerry'sfriend in saying this, but I honestly believe that a gentleman should be able to get by this type of discomfort without letting it ruin his day.

 

[nightowl6261a]

Hey globe, by the way, what up on the trip time, are we looking at dinner one night or something?
I won't wear a hat, maybe a white sneaker or something, but not a hat....

 

[globetrotter]

Hey globe, by the way, what up on the trip time, are we looking at dinner one night or something? I won't wear a hat, maybe a white sneaker or something, but not a hat....

how's it going, Chris. been missing you, off with your own fancy website and all

yeah, I am definalty planning on early september in France and Germany. I'l actualy be in Germany and Eastern Europe in mid July, then Africa in August- I'l call you at the shop to close up the dates for Sept.

 

[Bradford]

I've got an idea - let's pick an upcoming weekend evening and declare it "National wear a hat to a fine restaurant night." Then lets post it on lots of internet sites and see if we can get people to do it. We could even do some press releases if we could come up with a good fake organizational name to be behind it - maybe something like "The International Haberdashery Association". Then everyone has to go out to dinner that night and report if you see anyone wearing a hat

Bradford

 

[nightowl6261a]

how's it going, Chris. been missing you, off with your own fancy website and all

yeah, I am definalty planning on early september in France and Germany. I'l actualy be in Germany and Eastern Europe in mid July, then Africa in August- Â I'l call you at the shop to close up the dates for Sept.

Sounds great, by the way, bringing the wife?

 

[globetrotter]

Quote:

(globetrotter @ June 28 2005,17:12) how's it going, Chris. been missing you, off with your own fancy website and all

yeah, I am definalty planning on early september in France and Germany. I'l actualy be in Germany and Eastern Europe in mid July, then Africa in August- Â I'l call you at the shop to close up the dates for Sept.
Sounds great, by the way, bringing the wife?
wish I could, no this is business.

 

[Horace]

I have to say here that I agree with P - I might find it mildly offensive to see somebody wearing a cap in a resteraunt, but as long as he isn't loud or smelly, I am not going to let it bother my meal. sure, I might find pleasure in having some very nicely dressed people in my line of sight while eating, and perhaps it will give me displeasure to have unatractive or poorly dressed people in my line of site, but I won't let the boorishness of somebody away from my table ruin meals for me on a regular basis.

life is to short to let these things get your pants in a twist. I mean no distrespect to Jerry'sfriend in saying this, but I honestly believe that a gentleman should be able to get by this type of discomfort without letting it ruin his day.

The slobs shouldn't get passed the maitre d'. That's the problem. Sometimes I like to go to restaurants dressed like I am to the left. They never let me in. I take umbrage.

 

[Horace]

Gentlemen,

For all my pounding of those with baseball caps, I received my Karmic reward, apparently.

I went to a restaurant I hadn't been to in about 10, maybe 15 years -- somewhat expensive, but not Lutece expensive, and there were at least 7 baseball caps in the place. Maybe 10. One entire family was wearing baseball caps, including the little baby.

It was horrible. I tried to ignore it; I think I did okay.

H

 

[dusty]

One entire family was wearing baseball caps, including the little baby.

Hahaha

 

[Mr. Xristo]

this is a good discussion... Try getting into Daniel (Manhattan 212.933.5261) with a baseball cap... lol... IMHO, hats are completely innappropriate indoors, with few exceptions. If someone is allowed into a fine eatery with a baseball cap, they should find a new host/hostess, for they are not doing their job. I personally would not make a fuss out of sitting next to someone, although, I would remember back to my Navy days when anyone wearing a cover below decks would have been met with a slap in the head.

A gentleman should always remove his hat off of his head the moment he enters a building, including a restaurant, home, classroom, theater, church. (This includes Baseball Caps.). Read: http://www.levinehat.com/hat_and_cap_etiquette.htm

 

[rdawson808]

I thought I would add this to the discussion purely as an example. We all know that different places have different customs and that while doing X might be considered gauche in one city it isn't in another. Here in Annapolis, Maryland, apparently things are pretty laid back. We apparently have the only Ruth's Chris Steakhouse to *not* require men to wear a jacket. I've never been, but my gf's father says so.

bob