Cap in a fine restaurant

[linux_pro]

I think an open hand slap across the face is warranted to any moron who wears a baseball cap to a fine dining establishment.

Of course, take off his hat before you slap.

I have to agree with this fully. Anyone who wears a baseball cap at a dinner table should be asked to remove it or leave immediately (I got a laugh out of the slap idea). I have been to restaurants in which patrons were asked to please remove their hats or turn off their cell phones. If you are really offended by something, you can mention it to your waiter and generally someone will take care of the problem.

I was dining with my current girlfriend, and some guy behind us was talking and swearing loudly. I think that's the only time I have actually almost struck someone in a restaurant (he told me to mind my own business when I went to his table and asked him to stop). The management were pretty prompt in asking him to leave. Generally, if someone is too out-of-line, the staff will take care of it. Unfortunately, a person's lack of manners can ruin a nice evening for other diners.

 

[hopkins_student]

But how can someone wearing a hat really ruin your evening?

edit: If I were to wear a hat to a nice restaurant (not that I would, but in some alternate dimension) that did not have a specific rule against wearing them, and a waiter or manager came to me in the middle of the meal and asked me to remove my hat, I would leave without paying.

 

[Horace]

There was an episode of the Soprano's in which Tony, while eating in his favorite restaurant, spied a nearby diner wearing a baseball cap. He immediately arose, approached the man and told him to remove his cap. After a few second's hesitation, the customer seemed to recognize who Tony was and removed the cap.
  I recently ate at the Gotham Bar and Grill. I spied a nearby diner wearing a baseball cap, but I did nothing. I was wearing a Savile Row bespoke suit, a shirt by Charvet, a H&H tie and EG shoes. I doubt that my attire ruined anyone's evening. However, his attire lessened the pleasure of the evening for me and took away some of the grandness I was hoping for. I did not order champagne to begin, as it seemed inappropiate in a restaurant which let customers in wearing caps.
  What should I have done? I am not Tony Soprano and did not have the clout to complain to the other diner. But should have I complained to the manager before or after the man left about the restaurant not having any proper dress code and thereby damaging the evening for some customers?

Disgusting.


Even Tony Soprano, a sociopath, would appear to know proper manners.

I would told the manager, after the meal, about the unpleasantness.

 

[PHV]

There was an episode of the Soprano's in which Tony, while eating in his favorite restaurant, spied a nearby diner wearing a baseball cap. He immediately arose, approached the man and told him to remove his cap. After a few second's hesitation, the customer seemed to recognize who Tony was and removed the cap.
  I recently ate at the Gotham Bar and Grill. I spied a nearby diner wearing a baseball cap, but I did nothing. I was wearing a Savile Row bespoke suit, a shirt by Charvet, a H&H tie and EG shoes. I doubt that my attire ruined anyone's evening. However, his attire lessened the pleasure of the evening for me and took away some of the grandness I was hoping for. I did not order champagne to begin, as it seemed inappropiate in a restaurant which let customers in wearing caps.
  What should I have done? I am not Tony Soprano and did not have the clout to complain to the other diner. But should have I complained to the manager before or after the man left about the restaurant not having any proper dress code and thereby damaging the evening for some customers?

If I were to find your lady friend very ugly, would it be appropriate for me to come tell you? A very ugly woman is far more eye offending than a baseball cap.

This is snobbery. It does not detract from your dining experience. If you have good company and the food is good, a slight visual smudge on the facade will do nothing.

Loud talkers are different, but getting your boxers in a knot over a baseball cap reaks of something Dr. Frasier Crane would do...

 

[Fabienne]

Quote:

(Fabienne @ Mar. 08 2005,12:35) What if a person is talking so loud, you can barely hear the person across the table from you? Â Do you complain to the owner, or do you go over to their table? We had the situation, once, in our city's best restaurant, and it just about ruined our evening. Â The lady at the table next to us (Hmmm... should I call her a lady?) was wearing a LARGE hat, and making sure everyone heard what she was telling with much use of body language, arms in the air, etc.
I have sometimes found that the solution to this is to join into their conversation... Just wait for an opening, lean over and loudly interject yourself in the discussion. Typically the person is so embarassed by your bravado that they will either be in shock or start whispering nasty things about you. Either way you achieve your objective which is to get them to quiet down. And - every once in a while, you get someone who will continue the conversation and then it becomes a fun evening because you're no longer just a bystander but a participant. Bradford
Hmmm... I can't decide if I'd be too "proper" to do such a thing, or so annoyed I could actually consider doing it. It's bound to happen soon enough (sigh), so I will keep it in mind.

 

[PeterMetro]

Hmm, looks like they have a nice wine list, with some decent deals, like the 99 Shafer HSS.

What I don't know about wine could fill a few books, but the restaurant is very good. I think jerrysfriend would agree about the food. It's been a New York staple for something like 15 years - an impressive run.

 

[ViroBono]

VB, what is the policy about umbrellas in HMS military? in the IDF and the US I believe that it is frowned upon.

The only time a member of HM Armed Forces would carry an umbrella whilst in uniform is if they were escorting a VIP in the rain. Off duty, there is no policy; however, a tightly rolled umbrella, together with bowler hat, is still considered de rigeur for off duty and retired Guards officers, though not the most junior of them.

 

[linux_pro]

This is snobbery. It does not detract from your dining experience. If you have good company and the food is good, a slight visual smudge on the facade will do nothing. Loud talkers are different, but getting your boxers in a knot over a baseball cap reaks of something Dr. Frasier Crane would do...

I completely disagree with this. There are many people who would consider the wearing of a hat at a table as offensive as loud smacking of food, or loudly interrupting a speaker, and so on (if not more so). It is highly improper behaviour, period. Simply because the hat wearer is ignorant of the most obvious and basic table manners does not mean that those who suffer are somehow snobbish. Quite the opposite, actually. There is a reason we have etiquette. By observing it, we respect the rights of others, and treat them with dignity. By ignoring it, we are telling those around us that their rights are less important to us than our own. Etiquette is the glue of social order. Without it, we fall into the lazy habits of barbarism. Would you prefer that we all ate from troughs like pigs, pushing and shoving each other for that last bit of slop? Or that during a conversation, people just all shouted at each other simultaneously? Only in America would etiquette be frowned upon, where the ignorant somehow think they have been born with a right to trample on everyone around them in the name of personal liberty. They feel they were born with a right to everything they want, and anyone or anything that might ask them to humbly respect, help, or observe the rights of others is somehow an offense against their own selfish rights. I consider this as snobbishness of the worst sort. IMO, any person wearing a hat at the table deserves a quick slap to the face, as my own parents would have done when I was a child. I applaud ViroBono for his actions with the umbrella, and it shows me that the British still take some pride in their personal discipline. I only wish that people in America would be so observant of others at times. I would love to slap some hat-wearing or food-smacking idiot, but that type of behaviour would get you sued here in the US.

 

[hopkins_student]

Quote:

(PHV @ Mar. 08 2005,23:23) This is snobbery. It does not detract from your dining experience. If you have good company and the food is good, a slight visual smudge on the facade will do nothing. Loud talkers are different, but getting your boxers in a knot over a baseball cap reaks of something Dr. Frasier Crane would do...
I completely disagree with this. There are many people who would consider the wearing of a hat at a table as offensive as loud smacking of food, or loudly interrupting a speaker, and so on (if not more so). It is highly improper behaviour, period. Simply because the hat wearer is ignorant of the most obvious and basic table manners does not mean that those who suffer are somehow snobbish. Quite the opposite, actually. There is a reason we have etiquette. By observing it, we respect the rights of others, and treat them with dignity. By ignoring it, we are telling those around us that their rights are less important to us than our own. Etiquette is the glue of social order. Without it, we fall into the lazy habits of barbarism. Would you prefer that we all ate from troughs like pigs, pushing and shoving each other for that last bit of slop? Or that during a conversation, people just all shouted at each other simultaneously? Only in America would etiquette be frowned upon, where the ignorant somehow think they have been born with a right to trample on everyone around them in the name of personal liberty. They feel they were born with a right to everything they want, and anyone or anything that might ask them to humbly respect, help, or observe the rights of others is somehow an offense against their own selfish rights. I consider this as snobbishness of the worst sort. IMO, any person wearing a hat at the table deserves a quick slap to the face, as my own parents would have done when I was a child. I applaud ViroBono for his actions with the umbrella, and it shows me that the British still take some pride in their personal discipline. I only wish that people in America would be so observant of others at times. I would love to slap some hat-wearing or food-smacking idiot, but that type of behaviour would get you sued here in the US.
And I completely disagree with this. I'm with PHV. A hat is completely different from loud talking/smacking lips when chewing. Someone wearing a hat does not interfere with conversation, unless you can't finish a single sentence without saying, "Oh my God, look at that imbecile with a hat." If that's the case, it is really your short attention span, not the hat wearer, that is responsible for your bad experience.

 

[topcatny]

Gotham Bar & Grill is certainly not the place to be wearing a hat at the table. No place is actually, but this is one of the nicer restaurants in NYC and it is a shame that this was allowed.

That being said, it is surprising to hear how many people would allow this poor behavior to affect their enjoyment of thier meal. Maybe it is just me, but I do not allow others actions, that are not directly affecting me (ie. loud talkers are another issue), to dictate my enjoyment of a situation. So he was wearing a hat. He's wrong and his parents should have taught him better and the restaurant should have asked him to remove his cap, but the fact is none of that happened. If it bothers you, don't look at him or better yet, mock him to your dining partner at least then you get some enjoyment out of his folly.

Also, you do not know why he was wearing a cap. Most likely he was just exhibiting bad manners. However, perhaps he had chemotherapy and was losing his hair in clumps and felt self concious about it. Or, maybe he had a large wound or growth on his head that would have been even more distracting than the baseball cap. You don't know and I would hate to be the person who made a big deal out of something only to find out the person had much bigger problems than wearing a baseball cap in a restaurant. Again, these are unlikely scenarios but not impossible.

linux_pro Posted on Mar. 09 2005,15:10

I would love to slap some hat-wearing or food-smacking idiot, but that type of behaviour would get you sued here in the US.

Be careful who you decide to initiate this practice on. Getting sued might be the least of your problems. A good a$$ kicking might ensue as well. I consider myself well-mannered and can't imagine that I have ever behaved in a manner that would offend someone. However, if someone decided to teach me a lesson in that manner I would not have an issue reacting harshly and violently in my defense.

 

[FIHTies]

I completely disagree with this. There are many people who would consider the wearing of a hat at a table as offensive as loud smacking of food, or loudly interrupting a speaker, and so on (if not more so). It is highly improper behaviour, period. Simply because the hat wearer is ignorant of the most obvious and basic table manners does not mean that those who suffer are somehow snobbish. Quite the opposite, actually. There is a reason we have etiquette. By observing it, we respect the rights of others, and treat them with dignity. By ignoring it, we are telling those around us that their rights are less important to us than our own. Etiquette is the glue of social order. Without it, we fall into the lazy habits of barbarism. Would you prefer that we all ate from troughs like pigs, pushing and shoving each other for that last bit of slop? Or that during a conversation, people just all shouted at each other simultaneously? Only in America would etiquette be frowned upon, where the ignorant somehow think they have been born with a right to trample on everyone around them in the name of personal liberty. They feel they were born with a right to everything they want, and anyone or anything that might ask them to humbly respect, help, or observe the rights of others is somehow an offense against their own selfish rights. I consider this as snobbishness of the worst sort. IMO, any person wearing a hat at the table deserves a quick slap to the face, as my own parents would have done when I was a child. I applaud ViroBono for his actions with the umbrella, and it shows me that the British still take some pride in their personal discipline. I only wish that people in America would be so observant of others at times. I would love to slap some hat-wearing or food-smacking idiot, but that type of behaviour would get you sued here in the US.

I agree. Certainly one should get violent with the offensive one who is wearing the cap at the restuarant (Hey, how did he smuggle that cap in without the dining establishment seeing this?). If its a cheap restuarant (diner etc.) then the breaking of a bottle of beer either over his head (remove cap first for full effect) or against a table to get a serrated knife effect for full gashing capabilities) and then proceed to insert said bottle into the face or neck of the offender. If its a nice restuarant then substitute beer bottle for a nice wine. Hey, it works for Tony Soprano. PS: BTW, this never would have happened had this hat wearing social outcast been euthanized at the right time.

 

[drizzt3117]

Well, here's my view on the situation:

Wearing a hat in a fine restaurant may be a violation of etiquette, but who died and made you the etiquette policeperson? If it really bothers you, I suppose making a comment to the management could help, but I think if your dining experience was really flawed by someone dressing inappropriately, you are being overly sensitive.

That said, if it does bother you that much, make it known to the management and see what their attitude is towards the dress code, if they don't give you a satisifactory answer, by all means, take your business elsewhere.

 

[hopkins_student]

Well, here's my view on the situation: Wearing a hat in a fine restaurant may be a violation of etiquette, but who died and made you the etiquette policeperson? If it really bothers you, I suppose making a comment to the management could help, but I think if your dining experience was really flawed by someone dressing inappropriately, you are being overly sensitive. That said, if it does bother you that much, make it known to the management and see what their attitude is towards the dress code, if they don't give you a satisifactory answer, by all means, take your business elsewhere.

Exactly. In the absence of rules, it should be the person aggravated by the absence of rules rather than the rule-breaker, who should leave. But how can there really be a rule-breaker if there are no rules. I think you get my point.

 

[globetrotter]

Gotham Bar & Grill is certainly not the place to be wearing a hat at the table. Â No place is actually, but this is one of the nicer restaurants in NYC and it is a shame that this was allowed. That being said, it is surprising to hear how many people would allow this poor behavior to affect their enjoyment of thier meal. Â Maybe it is just me, but I do not allow others actions, that are not directly affecting me (ie. loud talkers are another issue), Â to dictate my enjoyment of a situation. Â So he was wearing a hat. Â He's wrong and his parents should have taught him better and the restaurant should have asked him to remove his cap, but the fact is none of that happened. Â If it bothers you, don't look at him or better yet, mock him to your dining partner at least then you get some enjoyment out of his folly. Also, you do not know why he was wearing a cap. Â Most likely he was just exhibiting bad manners. Â However, perhaps he had chemotherapy and was losing his hair in clumps and felt self concious about it. Â Or, maybe he had a large wound or growth on his head that would have been even more distracting than the baseball cap. Â You don't know and I would hate to be the person who made a big deal out of something only to find out the person had much bigger problems than wearing a baseball cap in a restaurant. Â Again, these are unlikely scenarios but not impossible.
Quote:

linux_pro Posted on Mar. 09 2005,15:10 I would love to slap some hat-wearing or food-smacking idiot, but that type of behaviour would get you sued here in the US.
Be careful who you decide to initiate this practice on. Â Getting sued might be the least of your problems. Â A good a$$ kicking might ensue as well. Â I consider myself well-mannered and can't imagine that I have ever behaved in a manner that would offend someone. Â However, if someone decided to teach me a lesson in that manner I would not have an issue reacting harshly and violently in my defense.
couldn't have said it better.

 

[Oltmann]

I once saw a guy who had frizzy-afro style hair (though he looked to be E Asian) that he had picked out into the shape of a stove pipe hat. The sides of his head were shaved too.

If he wandered into your favorite restaraunt, would he get a slap?